Show Prophecies

[Wizards11thRule]

With this season the writers have started throwing in several different prohecies that give hints on how the heroes can win, and that they are going to fail similar to the books. I was just wondering, what do you guys think about some of them?

Personally, I think that Richard will have to "give" the stone of tears back to the Keeper in order to seal the rift. And will have to come to this decision as a wizard/seeker with careful thought and thinking it through, similar to the books.

Kahlan and her pure heart beats: I think it just means that Kahlan needs to survive, but will come very close to dying or becoming unpure at some point.

And looks like the writers set up for the third season already. =), a new and more powerful foe?!?

[Dellannah]

With this season the writers have started throwing in several different prohecies that give hints on how the heroes can win, and that they are going to fail similar to the books. I was just wondering, what do you guys think about some of them?

Personally, I think that Richard will have to "give" the stone of tears back to the Keeper in order to seal the rift. And will have to come to this decision as a wizard/seeker with careful thought and thinking it through, similar to the books.

Kahlan and her pure heart beats: I think it just means that Kahlan needs to survive, but will come very close to dying or becoming unpure at some point.

And looks like the writers set up for the third season already. =), a new and more powerful foe?!?

I agree with you about Richard giving the stone to the Keeper - I was thinking that last season's prophecy was that Richard would kill Darken Rahl with the Sword of Truth. Technically Darken Rahl killed himself with the Sword of Truth by using it to try to break apart the Boxes of Orden. So I could see how the prophecy about Richard, the Stone and the Keeper (or enemy of the light, however it was worded) doesn't necessarily mean that giving the stone to the Keeper is a bad thing.

[Richlan]

I like the TV Series prophecies, they are different and I think a lot less complicated than the ones in the books, but need much less explaining.
How Richard will seal away the Keeper I don't know?
I was wondering though Kahlan could become impure in episode 11.

Spoiler: Episode 11

When she splits personalities, her Confessor side, might make he impure due to her actions which will be avoid of all compassion. Compassion being the element that makes women better Confessors.

[darkbahamut88]

I like the TV Series prophecies, they are different and I think a lot less complicated than the ones in the books, but need much less explaining.
How Richard will seal away the Keeper I don't know?
I was wondering though Kahlan could become impure in episode 11.

Spoiler: Episode 11

When she splits personalities, her Confessor side, might make he impure due to her actions which will be avoid of all compassion. Compassion being the element that makes women better Confessors.

That makes sense. I've been wondering how exactly she would get split in two, and maybe this is our answer. Maybe the Keeper (or one of his agents) would do something so she could be split, that way, her purely Confessor side would threaten to make her heart 'impure'. I say 'threaten' because it's pretty obvious it won't really happen (Kahlan's heart getting 'impure'), otherwise, the Keeper will win.

[The Source]

Just a quick thought...the prophecy said that the Seeker will give the stone to the Keeper..maybe the Seeker mentioned is Leo...Technically he is the seeker..and lets be honest...he wont be around forever.

[Dellannah]

Just a quick thought...the prophecy said that the Seeker will give the stone to the Keeper..maybe the Seeker mentioned is Leo...Technically he is the seeker..and lets be honest...he wont be around forever.

Did it say the Seeker or the son of Brennidon? I can't remember. Some of the prophecies mentioned the son of Brennidon, interpreted to be Richard.

[Dead Wizard]

well, who knows? maybe leo was born in brennidon too

[First Wizard]

I think it's really cool how they're incorporating prophecies into the show this season. Adds some much needed depth. Like Richlan said, they are different and a lot simpler than the book prophecies, but they have to be. The ones in the books are way too complex for this show.

[Zedd]

I am not really comfortable with cross-posting but I guess this thread is better suited than the Dark thread:

The new prophecy:

The other prophecies were quite explicit. I don't think it is necessary to focus on the word "pure" and would simply read it "as long as Kahlan lives". Actually it makes sense if you connect the earlier prophecy to it which says that the Seeker will give the Stone of Tears to the enemy of the light. I can only imagine one reason why Richard would do this (in terms of the whole real thing). Kahlan beeing killed and trapped in the dark and twisty realm of the Keeper for all eternity instead of this place the good souls were supposed to gather. And Of course like Dellannah said there can always be a more keen-witted solution how it can be resolved.

But if you want to analyse the "pure heart" then I would translate it to loving. Actually that was what I thought while watching the episode. Her love for Richard. Nothing more, nothing less. On a philosophical approach pure in terms of "uncorrupted" usually means love for others instead for oneself and to be able to judge without beeing corrupted by selfishness, power, money and so on. Maybe even not beeing corrupted by the wrong influence (meaning other people/powers/ideas) as well. But that is less philosophical rather than theological.

If you go with the latter one then the prophecy could translate to Richard beeing forced to make a difficult decission or beeing corrupted by some power and Kahlan beeing simply the force of good to keep him from doing the wrong thing. For doing this she needs to stay uncorrupted = pure and alive.

Zedd

[darkbahamut88]

Okay... this is a really interesting thread. I'm wondering why people didn't post here when I'm sure that everyone has their own theories about the prophecies. So, I decided to revive this.

Anyway, here are the prophecies from "Dark":

1. The descendant of two powerful bloodlines must fight a powerful new force after the Keeper is defeated.

2. In the time of the tearing of the veil, should the son of Brennidon seek the sacred stone, he will find it only to deliver it to the enemy of the light.

3. As long as the Mother Confessor's pure heart beats, the Keeper is doomed to fail.

Okay.. number 1 is pretty simple. Richard's going to face a new enemy after the Keeper. So that's sort of like a setup for season 3. For those who have read the books, we know who it's going to be.

2 and 3 are obviously connected. The simplest interpretation for this would be what Zedd said:

the prophecy could translate to Richard beeing forced to make a difficult decission or beeing corrupted by some power and Kahlan beeing simply the force of good to keep him from doing the wrong thing. For doing this she needs to stay uncorrupted = pure and alive.

It makes sense. It's actually the first thing I thought of, but it seems too simple. So it could mean something else. I like Zedd's first theory: Kahlan is somehow trapped in the underworld and Richard gives the Stone of Tears to the Keeper to save her. Kahlan, in turn, somehow causes the defeat of the Keeper by living.

But, we all know we can't take prophecy literally, and there are some parts that aren't really clear:

1. What is the "Enemy of the Light"? We can't directly assume this is the Keeper. It could be the enemy of the sisters of the light. "Light" could even mean something else completely. Something we haven't been introduced to.

2. What does "pure heart" mean exactly? My first thought for this was that Kahlan's heart must remain 'untouched'. I took it to mean as she musn't fall in love, which she already has, which would mean that they're doomed. My second thought was that "pure heart" is a sort of metaphor for Kahlan remaining a virgin. So there's a possibility Richard will have found a way to be together but they still can't because of the prophecy (causing Richard to detest prophecies even more). "Pure heart" could also, simply, mean "good". This ties up with the theories I've mentioned above.

There are a lot of interpretations for the prophecies. It could be something really complicated, or it could be really simple. Personally, I prefer a simple explanation which we couldn't think of. Those things are usually the best. It always makes you go "Ohhhhhh", in a good way.

As for those talks about Leo being the one to hand the Stone of Tears to the Keeper, I don't agree with that. The prophecy clearly talked about the "son of Brennidon". It could be that Leo was also born in Brennidon, but I don't think that likely. Leo is too unimportant a character for a prophecy to be about him. Hell, he wasn't even in the books. Also, shota has explicitly said that "Richard" will fail, not "the Seeker" will fail. I know because I paid close attention to this one knowing that the words in a prophecy are very relevant to its true explanation.

Discuss....

[deanna]

Nicci is due to appear again as we know in the casting sides, and she puts the maternity spell into effect. Maybe Richard has to give the stone of tears to her to stop her harming Kahlan?

[wintergt]

Nicci is due to appear again as we know in the casting sides, and she puts the maternity spell into effect. Maybe Richard has to give the stone of tears to her to stop her harming Kahlan?

That could be it.. and then they take the stone of tears back the next episode, the prophecy is fullfilled and they still win anyway.

[Gunk]

Okay... this is a really interesting thread. I'm wondering why people didn't post here when I'm sure that everyone has their own theories about the prophecies. So, I decided to revive this.

Anyway, here are the prophecies from "Dark":

1. The descendant of two powerful bloodlines must fight a powerful new force after the Keeper is defeated.

2. In the time of the tearing of the veil, should the son of Brennidon seek the sacred stone, he will find it only to deliver it to the enemy of the light.

3. As long as the Mother Confessor's pure heart beats, the Keeper is doomed to fail.

Okay, thing is with prophecies is most of the time they are written in a way where there seems to be an obvious interpretation that usually all the characters believe or somehow align with. Cool thing about Richard is he really could care less. He just does what he feels is right and it turns out whatever he does fulfills the prophecy.

My guess is the enemy of the Light is someone other than the Keeper. Light and Dark are terms used by the self proclaimed followers of either the Creator or the Keeper and someone doesn't necessarily have to be a follower of one side to be enemy of the other. One idea I have is enemy of the Light pertains to the Sisters of the Light (prophecy was given to them in the first place). The Sisters could have many enemies, including Richard himself, Zedd, Nicci, Shota and last but not least the Keeper. The purpose of this prophecy is to provide fuel for the Sisters and relate it to Shota's prophecy about the Seeker failing in his quest.

I think the more important prophecy is the one relating to Kahlan. My interpretation from looking for some correlation between all the prophecies is basically at the end of the series it will be Kahlan that will save the day. Richard will give it his all and certainly the quest couldn't be fulfilled without his help, but this one will land on Kahlan's shoulders in the end. The "pure heart" part is intriguing, though. I think we're meant to mull over this one. I think it's either going to be Kahlan's love for Richard needs to stay pure or (go with me on this) it's that Kahlan's heart needs to stay pure in relation to what is the greater good. Several times this season already we've seen her want to rush in and go with Richard only to have Richard say, "No, this is bigger than both of us." Maybe, Kahlan's heart/perspective needs to stay aligned with that. Richard will fail in his quest and be in jeopardy. Kahlan will have the choice of either trying to save Richard or choosing the greater good. By going with the great good her heart remains "pure" and the Keeper is defeated, which also happens to free Richard. So she'll be able to have her cake and eat it too.

[Gunk]

Nicci is due to appear again as we know in the casting sides, and she puts the maternity spell into effect. Maybe Richard has to give the stone of tears to her to stop her harming Kahlan?

I like the idea and think this is a very plausible scenario.

[Cara47]

I like that idea too about NIcci and the stone of tears seems like something that Nicci would do but I would think there was a bit more going on in those slides from what I've heard (so I can be way off here) Nicci and Richard kind of bond. Or rather Richard begins to understand Nicci a bit (understand how she's a bit crazy and her theology is kid of messed up anyway). So seems like an interesting idea but if he gave the stone to her, I guess there would be a bit of that struggle of given the choice (and hopefully after Richard has talked some sense into the woman) to free the keeper or see the nobility of life.

And as far as Kahlan being of pure of heart, I don't think it has anything to do with her being a virgin. I can only think of maybe having her confronted with the overall picture of being a protector of the midlands in her position as the Mother Confessor. I can't see Kahlan’s compassion changing or anything to compromise her in that manor but maybe there will be a some tie into that episode torn, with her being faced with the responsibilities of the Mother Confessor and the overall hope of the people of the midlands and her duty to them and her love of Richard. Though it's hard to see exactly how this will be since by aiding the Seeker (which she has already sworn to protect and aid-who is there by helping the people in their safety from the keeper escaping the underworld and killing everybody) she IS helping the people.

But I know prophesies can be strange. Like in Season One Shota said the seeker would be betrayed by the one he cares for most, the one in white (Kahlan) all she did was leave his side for a bit and then came back. Not much of a betrayal to me. But they have been working on that assumption for a long time now.

[darkbahamut88]

I also like the Nicci 'angle' to the prophecies. It could really happen. It ties everything nicely together. By 'everything' I mean the prophecies, what we've heard about future episodes, and stuff from the books.

But I know prophesies can be strange. Like in Season One Shota said the seeker would be betrayed by the one he cares for most, the one in white (Kahlan) all she did was leave his side for a bit and then came back. Not much of a betrayal to me. But they have been working on that assumption for a long time now.

About this, is it just me, or does anyone else think this prophecy will come back and bite Richard in the ass?

Spoiler: spoiler

When I first watched that scene, my first thought was the main prophecy in Temple of the Winds, and how it came to pass. Maybe this will happen in the show. Not necessarily as "graphic", but the concept will be there.

[wintergt]

About this, is it just me, or does anyone else think this prophecy will come back and bite Richard in the ass?

They would never drag a prophecy like this across seasons without mentioning it again for so many episodes. It had its resolution, albeit a bit lackluster (I even forgot how it was resolved lol).

[Zedd]

As long as the Mother Confessor's pure heart beats, the Keeper is doomed to fail.

Basically I am quite sure that our speculations probably will turn out to be wrong. Like darkbahamut88 said the best explanation is a simple one that nobody could think of.

But since it is fun I would like to add an idea. While I personally don't think the emphasis lies on the "pure" rather than on the "beats" there is something maybe a litte far-fetched that crossed my mind to support some of my own ideas. Selfish me I guess.

The Sisters of Light wear that orange robes that remembered me of Buddhist monks. In Buddhism or at least in one of it forms there are steps to achieve a devoted and compassionate heart. I don't practice Buddhism. I just read a book. So there isn't any guarantee for anything. But there are three levels on the way:

1. Sincere heart - beeing able to feel with others (without really beeing affected by it)

2. Good heart - a heart free of defilement, hatred, resentments and so on

3. Pure heart - feeling compassion and love for all life and beeing able to harmonize with all circumstances and react to them without dooing any harm to others

If I go that way then pure means uncorrupted and therefore not beeing influenced or tempted by evil. Now, what could be a better opportunity to prove such a pure heart than refusing the/a Keeper's offer? Or maybe even accept it to somehow save the souls wrongfully dammed to suffer for all eternity? But since it is necessary that her heart beats Richard will fail his quest by bargaining for her soul. Remember Darken Rahl was basically defeated by two people loving each other. What would be a better continuation to that than two people somehow saving the world by believing in goodness instead in some stone?

While I don't think that the enemy of the Light necessarily has to be the Keeper I discarded the possibility that it may be the Sisters of the Dark or Nicci because the show says they want the Keeper to succeed. It wouldn't make much of a difference. Meaning Sisters of Dark = Keeper just with an intermediate step.

The only thing that seems to be sure for the moment is that Kahlan has to save the day in the end.

About this, is it just me, or does anyone else think this prophecy will come back and bite Richard in the ass?

I actually believed her own explanation that the worst possible betrayal was to leave him which lead to Richard beeing captured by Denna and I agree that it is doubtful that they relate to something from 1x07.

"No, this is bigger than both of us." Maybe, Kahlan's heart/perspective needs to stay aligned with that.

While of course not impossible I wouldn't use the word pure in this context rather than relentless. I would use pure to desribe the ability to transced above the quest itself by seeing what is really important or what the grand scheme is all about.

Zedd

[darkbahamut88]

The Sisters of Light wear that orange robes that remembered me of Buddhist monks. In Buddhism or at least in one of it forms there are steps to achieve a devoted and compassionate heart. I don't practice Buddhism. I just read a book. So there isn't any guarantee for anything. But there are three levels on the way:

I like your interpretation Zedd, especially the part about "two people somehow saving the world by believing in goodness instead in some stone". It fits well with deciding one's own destiny, which I think is one of the main themes in the show and the books. But we don't really need to relate it to Buddhism. I don't think the writers would go deep enough as to relate it to the "three levels to a compassionate heart". But this is what's fun about story sleuthing. We pick apart the every little thing about the story, think of the most insane things, and come up with ideas that are probably better than the writers.

They would never drag a prophecy like this across seasons without mentioning it again for so many episodes. It had its resolution, albeit a bit lackluster (I even forgot how it was resolved lol).

I don't think that prophecy will be dragged back in this season, there are too many things happening already. But maybe they'll take it back in the following seasons (if there are seasons after this one).

Spoiler: book spoiler

Kahlan's "betrayal" was a very important part in Temple of the Winds. It was part of the conditions for Richard to be able to enter the Temple. I guess they could always make up other conditions, but I'm hoping that they follow the books on this one.

*Completely OT: All this discussions about possible interpretations of the prophecies makes me miss my Potter-sleuthing days. Too bad the HP series is done. *

[gorthaug]

considering the prophecy about richard and the one about kahlan,and the fact that no one knows that denee is alive,and the prophecies dont mention names, only titles, my theory is:

-kahlan will die/get caugt in a trap of darken rahl /the keeper, and richard only chance to save kahlan is to give up the stone of tears,denee( being the last living confessor) will become the mother confessor , and richard, remembering the prophecy, will realiised this ,and give the stone of tears to darken rahl /the keeper , saving kahlans life, and since the mother confessor pure heart still beats( denee's heart) will seal the rift in the veil